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	<title>Comments on: the desecration of law</title>
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		<item>
		<title>By: Andreas Lichte</title>
		<link>http://zooey.wordpress.com/2009/06/13/desecration/#comment-979</link>
		<dc:creator>Andreas Lichte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:49:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zooey.wordpress.com/?p=712#comment-979</guid>
		<description>Dear Zooey,

the people of the Waldorf movement can&#039;t get rid of Lorenzo Ravagli so easily since they themselves make him so important:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/11562

Von: Andreas Lichte 
Datum: 15. August 2009 10:14:15 MESZ
An: Peter Staudenmaier 
Betreff: Lorenzo Ravagli is Anthroposophy&#039;s &quot;mastermind&quot;

Hello Peter Staudenmaier,

on waldorf-critics you wrote:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/11347

“Steiner on conspiracy

(…) Heise’s works–not just this book but his other publications both before and after it–are a prime example of the virulence and longevity of antisemitic conspiracy theories within anthroposophy, with Steiner’s imprimatur. Heise continues to find anthroposophist defenders today; one prominent example is the most recent book by Lorenzo Ravagli, a very well known anthroposophist in Europe (and perhaps becoming better known in English-speaking circles as well; Frank Smith for example proudly promotes and distributes a couple of Ravagli’s earlier books in translation, vociferously denying that there are any antisemitic components whatsoever in anthroposophy past or present). (…).

.

&quot;Lorenzo Ravagli, a very well known anthroposophist in Europe ...&quot;:

I had a long conversation over the telephone with Dr. Walter Kugler, Rudolf Steiner Verlag, who confirmed that Lorenzo Ravagli is Anthroposophy&#039;s &quot;mastermind&quot;:

Lorenzo Ravagli is doing the most relevant anthroposophical propaganda work to deceive the public about racist Rudolf Steiner.

.

Doing that he defames critics - for example Helmut Zander - in the boldest way, see my latest article:

.

http://brightsblog.wordpress.com/2009/08/12/kampf-bis-zur-erleuchtung/

&quot;Kampf bis zur Erleuchtung - Lorenzo Ravagli und der Glaubenskrieg der Anthroposophie gegen Helmut Zander

Von Andreas Lichte

Frühjahr 2009. Als Antwort auf Helmut Zanders preisgekröntes Standardwerk “Anthroposophie in Deutschland” erscheint Lorenzo Ravaglis Schmähschrift “Zanders Erzählungen”. Im Vorwort sagt Dr. Walter Kugler, Leiter des Rudolf Steiner Archivs in Dornach, Ravagli habe das Ziel gehabt, “zu retten, was noch zu retten ist” und dabei Mut bewiesen. Zum Beispiel so:

Ravagli beschuldigt Zander, dieser verfolge mit seiner publizistischen Tätigkeit zur Anthroposophie eine “verdeckte Agenda” [S. 24].

Ravagli stellt Zander als “Enthüllungsjournalisten marxistischer Orientierung” dar, der “trotz seiner katholischen Vergangenheit einem marxistisch inspirierten, historischen Materialismus verpflichtet ist” [S. 35].

Ravagli stellt klar, dass nicht etwa die Anthroposophie eine Sekte ist, sondern: „Zander als Eingeweihter einer trivialaufklärerischen Entmythologisierungtradition strebt wie alle Angehörigen von Wissenschaftssekten (sic!) danach, die Normativität seiner partikularen Rationalität zu universalisieren und alle Angehörigen abweichender Traditionen oder Diskursgemeinschaften als Ketzer zu stigmatisieren.“ [S. 372]

Möchte jemand versuchen, das zusammenzufassen? Wie wäre es damit: Helmut Zander – ein katholisch-marxistischer, materialistischer Verschörer der Sekte Wissenschaft gegen die Anthroposophie?

(...)&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Zooey,</p>
<p>the people of the Waldorf movement can&#8217;t get rid of Lorenzo Ravagli so easily since they themselves make him so important:</p>
<p><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/11562" rel="nofollow">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/11562</a></p>
<p>Von: Andreas Lichte<br />
Datum: 15. August 2009 10:14:15 MESZ<br />
An: Peter Staudenmaier<br />
Betreff: Lorenzo Ravagli is Anthroposophy&#8217;s &#8220;mastermind&#8221;</p>
<p>Hello Peter Staudenmaier,</p>
<p>on waldorf-critics you wrote:</p>
<p><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/11347" rel="nofollow">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/11347</a></p>
<p>“Steiner on conspiracy</p>
<p>(…) Heise’s works–not just this book but his other publications both before and after it–are a prime example of the virulence and longevity of antisemitic conspiracy theories within anthroposophy, with Steiner’s imprimatur. Heise continues to find anthroposophist defenders today; one prominent example is the most recent book by Lorenzo Ravagli, a very well known anthroposophist in Europe (and perhaps becoming better known in English-speaking circles as well; Frank Smith for example proudly promotes and distributes a couple of Ravagli’s earlier books in translation, vociferously denying that there are any antisemitic components whatsoever in anthroposophy past or present). (…).</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>&#8220;Lorenzo Ravagli, a very well known anthroposophist in Europe &#8230;&#8221;:</p>
<p>I had a long conversation over the telephone with Dr. Walter Kugler, Rudolf Steiner Verlag, who confirmed that Lorenzo Ravagli is Anthroposophy&#8217;s &#8220;mastermind&#8221;:</p>
<p>Lorenzo Ravagli is doing the most relevant anthroposophical propaganda work to deceive the public about racist Rudolf Steiner.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>Doing that he defames critics &#8211; for example Helmut Zander &#8211; in the boldest way, see my latest article:</p>
<p>.</p>
<p><a href="http://brightsblog.wordpress.com/2009/08/12/kampf-bis-zur-erleuchtung/" rel="nofollow">http://brightsblog.wordpress.com/2009/08/12/kampf-bis-zur-erleuchtung/</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Kampf bis zur Erleuchtung &#8211; Lorenzo Ravagli und der Glaubenskrieg der Anthroposophie gegen Helmut Zander</p>
<p>Von Andreas Lichte</p>
<p>Frühjahr 2009. Als Antwort auf Helmut Zanders preisgekröntes Standardwerk “Anthroposophie in Deutschland” erscheint Lorenzo Ravaglis Schmähschrift “Zanders Erzählungen”. Im Vorwort sagt Dr. Walter Kugler, Leiter des Rudolf Steiner Archivs in Dornach, Ravagli habe das Ziel gehabt, “zu retten, was noch zu retten ist” und dabei Mut bewiesen. Zum Beispiel so:</p>
<p>Ravagli beschuldigt Zander, dieser verfolge mit seiner publizistischen Tätigkeit zur Anthroposophie eine “verdeckte Agenda” [S. 24].</p>
<p>Ravagli stellt Zander als “Enthüllungsjournalisten marxistischer Orientierung” dar, der “trotz seiner katholischen Vergangenheit einem marxistisch inspirierten, historischen Materialismus verpflichtet ist” [S. 35].</p>
<p>Ravagli stellt klar, dass nicht etwa die Anthroposophie eine Sekte ist, sondern: „Zander als Eingeweihter einer trivialaufklärerischen Entmythologisierungtradition strebt wie alle Angehörigen von Wissenschaftssekten (sic!) danach, die Normativität seiner partikularen Rationalität zu universalisieren und alle Angehörigen abweichender Traditionen oder Diskursgemeinschaften als Ketzer zu stigmatisieren.“ [S. 372]</p>
<p>Möchte jemand versuchen, das zusammenzufassen? Wie wäre es damit: Helmut Zander – ein katholisch-marxistischer, materialistischer Verschörer der Sekte Wissenschaft gegen die Anthroposophie?</p>
<p>(&#8230;)&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: where is that libel suit, percy? &#171; zooey</title>
		<link>http://zooey.wordpress.com/2009/06/13/desecration/#comment-928</link>
		<dc:creator>where is that libel suit, percy? &#171; zooey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 10:43:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zooey.wordpress.com/?p=712#comment-928</guid>
		<description>[...] sort of have a history of relying on unfounded libel suit threats to protect the movement from unwanted negative attention. It happens over and over again. And sometimes, the people who threaten us, are the ones who really [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] sort of have a history of relying on unfounded libel suit threats to protect the movement from unwanted negative attention. It happens over and over again. And sometimes, the people who threaten us, are the ones who really [...]</p>
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		<title>By: zooey</title>
		<link>http://zooey.wordpress.com/2009/06/13/desecration/#comment-926</link>
		<dc:creator>zooey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 10:12:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zooey.wordpress.com/?p=712#comment-926</guid>
		<description>It is indeed quite strange that they--ie, the people of waldorf movement--don&#039;t see the problems arising from this, but then, I suppose, they don&#039;t realize things and deal with them unless they&#039;re forced to. They did get rid of Molau, eventually, when they started to smell a a potential scandal...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is indeed quite strange that they&#8211;ie, the people of waldorf movement&#8211;don&#8217;t see the problems arising from this, but then, I suppose, they don&#8217;t realize things and deal with them unless they&#8217;re forced to. They did get rid of Molau, eventually, when they started to smell a a potential scandal&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Andreas Lichte</title>
		<link>http://zooey.wordpress.com/2009/06/13/desecration/#comment-925</link>
		<dc:creator>Andreas Lichte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 08:24:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zooey.wordpress.com/?p=712#comment-925</guid>
		<description>Even Waldorf student Ansgar Martins is convinced that is no longer tolerable that a hardcore Anthroposophist like Lorenzo Ravagli–who is denying Rudolf Steiners racism–is a prominent figure of Waldorf education. Hence Ansgar Martins wrote this article:

http://waldorfblog.wordpress.com/2009/07/15/ravagli-die-rassen-und-die-rechten/

&quot;Ravagli, die “Rassen” und die Rechten

(...) Der braune Sumpf hinterlässt auch und gerade dann Flecken, wenn mensch versucht, ihn (als stümperhaften Abgrenzungsversuch) wegzuphilosophieren, wie sich am Beispiel Lorenzo Ravagli zeigt. Flecken, die anhaften.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even Waldorf student Ansgar Martins is convinced that is no longer tolerable that a hardcore Anthroposophist like Lorenzo Ravagli–who is denying Rudolf Steiners racism–is a prominent figure of Waldorf education. Hence Ansgar Martins wrote this article:</p>
<p><a href="http://waldorfblog.wordpress.com/2009/07/15/ravagli-die-rassen-und-die-rechten/" rel="nofollow">http://waldorfblog.wordpress.com/2009/07/15/ravagli-die-rassen-und-die-rechten/</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Ravagli, die “Rassen” und die Rechten</p>
<p>(&#8230;) Der braune Sumpf hinterlässt auch und gerade dann Flecken, wenn mensch versucht, ihn (als stümperhaften Abgrenzungsversuch) wegzuphilosophieren, wie sich am Beispiel Lorenzo Ravagli zeigt. Flecken, die anhaften.&#8221;</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andreas Lichte</title>
		<link>http://zooey.wordpress.com/2009/06/13/desecration/#comment-924</link>
		<dc:creator>Andreas Lichte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 08:13:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zooey.wordpress.com/?p=712#comment-924</guid>
		<description>Dear Zooey,

in a post on waldorf-critics Peter Staudenmaier underlined the importance of Lorenzo Ravagli for the Anthroposophic movement:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/11347

&quot;Steiner on conspiracy

(...) Heise&#039;s works–not just this book but his other publications both before and after it–are a prime example of the virulence and longevity of antisemitic conspiracy theories within anthroposophy, with Steiner&#039;s imprimatur. Heise continues to find anthroposophist defenders today; one prominent example is the most recent book by Lorenzo Ravagli, a very well known anthroposophist in Europe (and perhaps becoming better known in English-speaking circles as well; Frank Smith for example proudly promotes and distributes a couple of Ravagli&#039;s earlier books in translation, vociferously denying that there are any antisemitic components whatsoever in anthroposophy past or present). (...).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Zooey,</p>
<p>in a post on waldorf-critics Peter Staudenmaier underlined the importance of Lorenzo Ravagli for the Anthroposophic movement:</p>
<p><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/11347" rel="nofollow">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/waldorf-critics/message/11347</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Steiner on conspiracy</p>
<p>(&#8230;) Heise&#8217;s works–not just this book but his other publications both before and after it–are a prime example of the virulence and longevity of antisemitic conspiracy theories within anthroposophy, with Steiner&#8217;s imprimatur. Heise continues to find anthroposophist defenders today; one prominent example is the most recent book by Lorenzo Ravagli, a very well known anthroposophist in Europe (and perhaps becoming better known in English-speaking circles as well; Frank Smith for example proudly promotes and distributes a couple of Ravagli&#8217;s earlier books in translation, vociferously denying that there are any antisemitic components whatsoever in anthroposophy past or present). (&#8230;).</p>
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		<title>By: waldorf och the witch &#171; zooey</title>
		<link>http://zooey.wordpress.com/2009/06/13/desecration/#comment-856</link>
		<dc:creator>waldorf och the witch &#171; zooey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 23:07:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zooey.wordpress.com/?p=712#comment-856</guid>
		<description>[...] problem. Bara de senaste veckorna har jag skrivit om skribenter och websidesinnehavare som fått stämningshot mot sig; jag har fått höra om en journalist som, efter att ha skrivit en artikel om antroposoferna, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] problem. Bara de senaste veckorna har jag skrivit om skribenter och websidesinnehavare som fått stämningshot mot sig; jag har fått höra om en journalist som, efter att ha skrivit en artikel om antroposoferna, [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: zooey</title>
		<link>http://zooey.wordpress.com/2009/06/13/desecration/#comment-822</link>
		<dc:creator>zooey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jun 2009 14:53:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zooey.wordpress.com/?p=712#comment-822</guid>
		<description>Yes, indeed, and the strangest thing is how people use the law. Or abuse it. 

The problem anthroposophists have is that they try to kill criticism instead of facing it. That way it inevitable returns and bites them in the tail, again and again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, indeed, and the strangest thing is how people use the law. Or abuse it. </p>
<p>The problem anthroposophists have is that they try to kill criticism instead of facing it. That way it inevitable returns and bites them in the tail, again and again.</p>
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		<title>By: maura</title>
		<link>http://zooey.wordpress.com/2009/06/13/desecration/#comment-821</link>
		<dc:creator>maura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jun 2009 14:32:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://zooey.wordpress.com/?p=712#comment-821</guid>
		<description>Thanks for that Zoooey,very interesting.The law is a very strange thing.It is very good to let people know about all this.It is so true,Anthroposophists never seem to want to engage and discuss the criticism they encounter,and thats what really worried me when I started reading about all this.
Maura.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for that Zoooey,very interesting.The law is a very strange thing.It is very good to let people know about all this.It is so true,Anthroposophists never seem to want to engage and discuss the criticism they encounter,and thats what really worried me when I started reading about all this.<br />
Maura.</p>
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